Where now ?

[Rumps]

Much has been said but a solution is no nearer.

You have to main choices: (i) take the club out of administration; (ii) let it go and start again.

If you want to take the club out of administration, you have to: (i) secure all the creditors and continue in the BSP; or (ii) knock the creditors and drop into BSN.

The club is worth next to nothing, really just the players and most of them seem resigned to leaving. There is - unlike when Mr. Singh took over - no stadium. It is possible, just possible, that you can buy the club for a knock down price.

You buy the club and you need somewhere suitable for BSP. There is only one ground suitable and that is the Arena. If you can't come to terms to with Scott and Sizer, then there is no point in taking the club out of administration.

If you just let the club go and start again, the highest you can is Evostik Premier. Other than the Arena, there is no ground suitable for that level.

So, unless you can come to terms with Scott and Sizer, the Evostik is out.

The Northern League is a possibility. You will need a ground. Feethams is out because: (i) you don't have a lease at present; and (ii) it very obviously isn't up to scratch at the moment.

You really need to work out whether you can negotiate with Scott and Sizer. If you can't, then you need a groundshare to start off in the Northern League and then get Feethams up to scratch to work your way up the pyramid.

Just my thoughts.

[feethams]

Has it not been confirmed we could approach the RA about using their ground and playing in the EVO?

[Quakerz]

RA's ground is not Evostik standard and neither is the capacity big enough.

[DRAFC]

what capacity do you need for evostik?

[feethams]

Yes, what are the minimum requirements for EVO?

[footie fan]

Its not about capacity you need so many seats,turnstiles,the perimeter around the pitch needs to be enclosed, you need a tunnel or similar, there are all sorts of things and they are sticklers for the rules ( especially to any team from the north east !!! ) !!

[MKDarlo]

it will be starting again in the Wearside league. The RA would be idela for that

[Rumps]

The Evostik Permier is step 3 in the National League System:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_League_System

This requires a ground grading of category C:

http://www.thefa.com/Leagues/NationalLe ... 202011.pdf

You need at least 250 seats.

Darlington RA are Northern League Division 2 and need only category H, which is the lowest category. I have never been there but I suspect it is not up to Evostik standards.

[Rumps]

With the Arena, a phoenix club could go in at Evostik Premier. Without the Arena, aim for Northern League division 1 and negotiate for Feethams which you know will eventually be okay for the Football League.

[Rumps]

There is a set of rules for the pyramid (the National League System):

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/RulesandRegu ... m0809.ashx

Check out the requirements in rule 5.3 for phoenix clubs (known as reformed clubs).

[Rumps]

Now you can start planning your new club.

[quaker4life]

If you just let the club go and start again, the highest you can is Evostik Premier. Other than the Arena, there is no ground suitable for that level.

So, unless you can come to terms with Scott and Sizer, the Evostik is out.

Incorrect.

There are grounds in the local area that would meet evostik requirements that I'm aware of, the nearest being Bishop Auckland's new Heritage Park ground is up to EvoStik standard.

TBF playing at the white elephant in the evo stik league is beynond nonsensical.

The Northern League is a possibility. You will need a ground. Feethams is out because: (i) you don't have a lease at present; and (ii) it very obviously isn't up to scratch at the moment.

Again not necessarily true, Feethams isn't completely out although it is currently derelict wasteland it can be built on and Darlington Cricket Club have been trying unsuccessfully for quite a number of years now to get houses on the site.

My personal opinion remains that due to the limited road access to the site the only way a housing development can be built there is if the cricket club moves onto the site of the former football ground or relocates entirely.

Yes the northern leaugue is a possibility in which case we would be able to groundshare with the RA but I'd rather we avoided this and started as high as possible, I don't want us to end up in a situation like that of Scarborough who I believe have been in the yorkshire equalivent of the Northern League since reforming and have also been groundsharing out of town at Bridlington.

[Take Heed]

The Northern League is full this season for the first time in a few seasons. You cannot be dropped into a league higher than step 7 (Wearside/Northern Alliance Prem) if there is no vacancy. At the moment there is no vacancy. If one of the 4 teams who have applied for promotion (Sunderland RCA, Dunston UTS, Bishop Auckland or Whitley Bay) finish in the top two (this is likely but not certain as Spennymoor and West Auckland will both be there or there abouts)-, then they may take promotion and that will leave a vacancy as its unlikely the relegated team from the Northern Prem North (Evostick Two) would be in the correct geographical area to join the Northern League Div One. Three teams have applied from the Wearside League to take promotion to Northern League Div Two (Step 6). These three are Ryhope CW, Redcar Athletic and Willington. That would most likely be a straight relegation/promotion issue unlike last season when there were vacancies which were filled by Easington from the Wearside League and Alnwick Town from the Northern Alliance Premier. Nobody was relegated last season.

Don't think the conference will accept relegation to the BSN either. They consider this their league and if a club does not meet the conditions for memberhship i.e. meet the conditions we all know about then its relegation out of the conference completely and that includes the step 2 leagues of the BSN and BSS.

You need to be looking at the Evostick in my opinion as otherwise it might be Wearside and that's 6 levels below where you are now and a long way back. To put it into perspective I watched a game at Jarrow FC last season in the Wearside League and they play on a school field, charge £2 to watch and the 'crowd' was under 20 people. I think they finished in the top 6 as well.

[we_8_poolie]

Knowledge !!

[notgnilrad]

The Northern League is full this season for the first time in a few seasons. You cannot be dropped into a league higher than step 7 (Wearside/Northern Alliance Prem) if there is no vacancy. At the moment there is no vacancy. If one of the 4 teams who have applied for promotion (Sunderland RCA, Dunston UTS, Bishop Auckland or Whitley Bay) finish in the top two (this is likely but not certain as Spennymoor and West Auckland will both be there or there abouts)-, then they may take promotion and that will leave a vacancy as its unlikely the relegated team from the Northern Prem North (Evostick Two) would be in the correct geographical area to join the Northern League Div One. Three teams have applied from the Wearside League to take promotion to Northern League Div Two (Step 6). These three are Ryhope CW, Redcar Athletic and Willington. That would most likely be a straight relegation/promotion issue unlike last season when there were vacancies which were filled by Easington from the Wearside League and Alnwick Town from the Northern Alliance Premier. Nobody was relegated last season.

If we drop out of the BSP doesnt one team from the lower leagues move up a space automatically meaning there will be a space somewhere as Darlington FC have gone. Someone has to fill the void left by our demise what about our Phoeonix Club. Easy.

[MikeinBlack]

The Northern League is full this season for the first time in a few seasons. You cannot be dropped into a league higher than step 7 (Wearside/Northern Alliance Prem) if there is no vacancy. At the moment there is no vacancy. If one of the 4 teams who have applied for promotion (Sunderland RCA, Dunston UTS, Bishop Auckland or Whitley Bay) finish in the top two (this is likely but not certain as Spennymoor and West Auckland will both be there or there abouts)-, then they may take promotion and that will leave a vacancy as its unlikely the relegated team from the Northern Prem North (Evostick Two) would be in the correct geographical area to join the Northern League Div One. Three teams have applied from the Wearside League to take promotion to Northern League Div Two (Step 6). These three are Ryhope CW, Redcar Athletic and Willington. That would most likely be a straight relegation/promotion issue unlike last season when there were vacancies which were filled by Easington from the Wearside League and Alnwick Town from the Northern Alliance Premier. Nobody was relegated last season.

In English does that mean we're likely to be in the Wearside league if we don't survive as Darlington FC? Not ideal I'd say!

[Quakerz]

Can't see why the Northern League couldn't operate with an extra team? I'm sure most of the clubs would be glad of the extra revenue.

[Take Heed]

The Northern League is full this season for the first time in a few seasons. You cannot be dropped into a league higher than step 7 (Wearside/Northern Alliance Prem) if there is no vacancy. At the moment there is no vacancy. If one of the 4 teams who have applied for promotion (Sunderland RCA, Dunston UTS, Bishop Auckland or Whitley Bay) finish in the top two (this is likely but not certain as Spennymoor and West Auckland will both be there or there abouts)-, then they may take promotion and that will leave a vacancy as its unlikely the relegated team from the Northern Prem North (Evostick Two) would be in the correct geographical area to join the Northern League Div One. Three teams have applied from the Wearside League to take promotion to Northern League Div Two (Step 6). These three are Ryhope CW, Redcar Athletic and Willington. That would most likely be a straight relegation/promotion issue unlike last season when there were vacancies which were filled by Easington from the Wearside League and Alnwick Town from the Northern Alliance Premier. Nobody was relegated last season.

If we drop out of the BSP doesnt one team from the lower leagues move up a space automatically meaning there will be a space somewhere as Darlington FC have gone. Someone has to fill the void left by our demise what about our Phoeonix Club. Easy.

Normally the precident is that if a team goes pop, then the Conference will retain one of its relegated clubs in its place. See (Forest Green) Twice for details in recent years. This process of teams avoiding relegation due to the financial demise of their peers has jokingly become known as the AGM Cup as the final decision is often made at the leagues AGM in the summer!!

[quakersam]

We wouldn't be placed in the Wearside. The FA have to look at the support the phoenix club would have and there is no way some Wearside grounds could take 5/600 supporters. EvoStik or Northern League

[Take Heed]

Can't see why the Northern League couldn't operate with an extra team? I'm sure most of the clubs would be glad of the extra revenue.

There are 22 teams in each division which is the maximum the FA allow in a step 5/6 league. The FA are currently undergoing a revue to reduce the total number of leagues at step 5 and are hardly likely to accept one of the leagues increasing still further. One of the NL teams may well go pop, it happens all the time at that level, but as things stand, a Darlington Pheonix club would be looking at the Wearside League unless a vacancy appears higher up.

Taking the vacant space that may would appear in the Evostick Premier if the result of the non relegation of teams leaves it one short, would be the best case scenario. This would depend on who wins promotion to the BSN and from which league they came from.

[Take Heed]

We wouldn't be placed in the Wearside. The FA have to look at the support the phoenix club would have and there is no way some Wearside grounds could take 5/600 supporters. EvoStik or Northern League

You are probably correct with that, but it would largely depend on how credible you look and what groundswell of support you can muster. If its half hearted then it may be as low as the Wearside. If you get organised quickly and can prove you can muster decent numbers then common sense may prevail but this is the FA we are talking about here.

[MikeinBlack]

Blood hell, why oh why is nothing straight forward at Darlo?

[MikeinBlack]

We wouldn't be placed in the Wearside. The FA have to look at the support the phoenix club would have and there is no way some Wearside grounds could take 5/600 supporters. EvoStik or Northern League

You are probably correct with that, but it would largely depend on how credible you look and what groundswell of support you can muster. If its half hearted then it may be as low as the Wearside. If you get organised quickly and can prove you can muster decent numbers then common sense may prevail but this if the FA we are talking about here.

Isn't that a bit like saying Leeds United couldn't be relegated to League 2 as their away support would be too much for Accrington Stanley to Accommodate? If the away grounds can only accept 400 visiting fans then they will have to make it all ticket for away supporters surely?

[Take Heed]

To be totally clear, as it stands the Northern League has no powers to accept a reformed Darlington FC. They are obliged to take promoted teams who have applied on time and who meet the grading criteria and qualifies for promotion (finishes in the top two). This may be another option if more than one of the teams who has applied fails to finish in the top two or fails to meet the grading requirements. Potentially/theoretically they could then relegate another club in favour of Darlo 1883 (or more likely the FA will impose you on them). They will not want to be seen to be ditching one of their member clubs.

[Take Heed]

Isn't that a bit like saying Leeds United couldn't be relegated to League 2 as their away support would be too much for Accrington Stanley to Accommodate? If the away grounds can only accept 400 visiting fans then they will have to make it all ticket for away supporters surely?

To a point yes and in the Leeds scenario, definitely. But common sense needs to prevail. Grounds in the Wearside League don't even have turnstiles for the most part, so how would you control an all ticket crowd? If you can demonstrate substantial support then the FA will probably see sense (and with police advice), put you in a league with grounds capable of dealing with that level of support safely. Numbers and well organised credibility is the key. Chester did this very well and the FA originally placed them in the North West Counties League (step 5 and equivalent to Northern League Div One). They overturned this on appeal and got up one more level.

[MKDarlo]

I can’t see how we, as a new club, could play in a league OTHER than the Wearside League, unless someone bends the rules.

IMO the club has to stay in Darlo to have any future. That means either the Arena (God no!) the rugby club ( would they have us?) a new ground (which wont be ready in time) or the RA (is there anywhere else in town?)

To me we have to sort out ASAP what we are going to do. Someone needs to be sitting with the leagues now and talking about the potential future, looking at our options for a new home, provisionally agreeing a ground share, hopefully for a short time, thinking about what and how much it takes to start a new team identifying key personal fro off field roles, identifying potential contributors and the 1000's of other things we will need to start again

[MikeinBlack]

Thanks for clearing that up TH! Hope we don't have to be at that level long - get's too complicated lol. We'd probably forget to apply for promotion on time anyway.

[MKDarlo]

Isn't that a bit like saying Leeds United couldn't be relegated to League 2 as their away support would be too much for Accrington Stanley to Accommodate? If the away grounds can only accept 400 visiting fans then they will have to make it all ticket for away supporters surely?

To a point yes and in the Leeds scenario, definitely. But common sense needs to prevail. Grounds in the Wearside League don't even have turnstiles for the most part, so how would you control an all ticket crowd? If you can demonstrate substantial support then the FA will probably see sense (and with police advice), put you in a league with grounds capable of dealing with that level of support safely. Numbers and well organised credibility is the key. Chester did this very well and the FA originally placed then in the North West Counties League (step 5 and equivalent to Northern League Div One). They overturned this on appeal and got up one more level.

They had a ground which we dont - The Arena in the Evostick would be pure madness

[Take Heed]

I can’t see how we, as a new club, could play in a league OTHER than the Wearside League, unless someone bends the rules.

IMO the club has to stay in Darlo to have any future. That means either the Arena (God no!) the rugby club ( would they have us?) a new ground (which wont be ready in time) or the RA (is there anywhere else in town?)

To me we have to sort out ASAP what we are going to do. Someone needs to be sitting with the leagues now and talking about the potential future, looking at our options for a new home, provisionally agreeing a ground share, hopefully for a short time, thinking about what and how much it takes to start a new team identifying key personal fro off field roles, identifying potential contributors and the 1000's of other things we will need to start again

From afar it seems to me that you don't have an organised fans group in the same way that Chester did. They were holding fans meetings and raising cash well before the club went bust, they also had a hierarchy set up and an excellent fans spokesman who was all over the media like a rash. They were negotiating with the council over the stadium within hours of the club going pop. The spokesman was on 5 live every week. Seems to me you need to call a public meeting and get yourselves organised.

[Take Heed]

They had a ground which we dont - The Arena in the Evostick would be pure madness

You are right there. Their ground was council owned and as such, there was a willingness on the council to be seen to be helping the club. Sadly you don't have that advantage.